We were advised of this upon installation. Press the M (menu) button on the front panel and choose the 1. Recirculation Settings by pressing down the OK button. Lets start by looking at how these pumps actually work: If it takes forever for the hot water to start running, it usually means that there is a long pipe between a boiler (or a hot water heater or tankless water heater) and the faucet. Advantages and disadvantages of hot water circulation pumps. That means that this household wasted 8 gallons of water per day just waiting for hot water. Wash it under the water with a brush, let it dry, and then place it back. We dont. Remove the screw that secures the air intake filter and then remove the filter. Not only that, by now you should know how to turn it off and why its important to do so. here are some problems that you may have to deal with in the future or have experienced already primarily found in older Navien heater models; Though not a common occurrence, it is still essential to know how to identify these issues. The large valves should be in the off position, whereas the service valves should be in the on place. "The recirculating pump costs about the same as operating a 25-watt light bulb," says Umberto Griccino, a commercial plumber and HouseGrail consultant. Recirculation valve for use with NPE-A series tankless water heaters Designed for recirculation of domestic hot water in applications where a dedicated return line is not available. That's an interesting solution. Open the service port on the host side and the isolation valve on the cold side, pushing water through the system. I agree the user manuals are very helpful. However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. This issue is more common in older heater models. Years of experience in the HVAC field have taught him many lessons, not the least of which is that the value of quality and knowledge far exceeds any promised initial savings. It also may be as simple as a dip switch in the tankless unit itself. Difficulties with estimation of epsilon-delta limit proof. Here is the list of all the parts you need to install a recirculation pump. (+ Calculator), 5 Best Air Purifiers For Allergies In 2023 (+ H13 Medical-Grade HEPA Filters), Is A Tankless Water Heater Worth It? However, I have envious of those who have the NPE with the hot button and wifi link. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads. If this does not work, hire a professional to repair or replace any damaged parts. This propels the water to your faucet or shower much quicker. Examine the thermistors condition and pump wiring connectors. toby sutton wife of frank sutton how to turn on navien recirculation pump You just have to unplug the pump, and it will be turned off. This unit doesnt have dip switches as far as I undersrand. Obviously, everybody loves immediate hot water from their faucets but this luxury can be quite expensive. For example, you will see Navien error code 003 on the display screen, which means the igniter is malfunctioning. You can turn it off during work hours, over the night, when you go on vacations, and so on. Also, check the feeder valve and pressure relief valves activity. If you have any questions about these pumps, how they work, or some calculations, you can give us the specifics in the comments below and well try to help you out. FREE Returns . Tankless Water Heater Wire Size Calculator: What Gauge Wire (AWG)? We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. Get it as soon as Wednesday, Mar 1. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Examine and clean the filter in a cold water inlet. The pump will cost you $200 to install, $5.50-$32 to operate, will waste $160-$400 per year and will save you $4-$50 on your water bill. Then, turn it on again. Turns out if you "disable" schedules when in always on mode it stops the every 30 minute schedule the device uses when in Always On mode. On a side note, if your Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, it may have air locks or installation problems. link to How to Connect a Generator to Your Tiny House Without a Transfer Switch, Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Insinkerator Hot Water Dispenser How-to & Troubleshooting Guide. This chapter will reveal all the possible culprits that cause the recirculation pump of your Navien to make a humming noise. Turning off your water recirculating pump reduces damage. Foreign materials like small pebbles may get into the recirculation pump. If required, replace the thermistor. If your system displays this code, you need to confirm the water pressure is within good ranges. Here is a list of advantages associated with hot water circulating pumps: Now lets have a look at the disadvantages of these pumps: Needless to say, recirculation pumps are not free. There are special tankless water heater recirculation pumps for Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units; we will cover them all. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman to fix the issue. The hot water recirculation pump works by: The very phrase recirculating comes from this pump returning the unused hot water back into the tank. Make sure there are no loose connections. Examine the controllers condition and replace it if required. This serves two functions: This is also true for tankless water heaters. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. Thanks. It tells you about the abnormality of the external tank thermistor. Navien Flow Sensor. I have the newest version pcb since I just bought the tankless. The 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors are used to connect the pump to your existing pipes. It is important to note that recirculation pumps dont work continuously; they are used only when we open and close the faucet. A recirculation system is a hot water line that runs throughout the house and returns back to the water heater. I have alos checked my HeatBox settings to ensure the temp is set high enough for my domestic supply (set to around 120 degrees). Inspect the water feeder valve, water pressure, and water pressure relief valve. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? House generators are quite expensive. It clips on the side of the PCB board without screws and then you connect a ribbon cable to the PCB. Ask an Expert Home Improvement Questions HVAC Questions Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. Unscrew the plug cover with a suitable screwdriver to remove it. From the valve, try to loosen up the cap to remove air from the system. JavaScript is disabled. Always on checks in every 30 minutes and turns on the heat recirculation if the water is 9 degrees under the water goal temp. link to Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? This might be a small installation error or a faulty setting. Putting one recirc line in won't turn a line and branch system into a loop system automatically. Its a piece of cake to bleed the air out of your Navien recirculation pump. Solution: Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valve's direction. This comprehensive guide helps to make the operation and repair of your heater easier. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Allow it to dry and then fix it back. But, you can buy a new recirculating pump for $200-400. Page 12 Turn off and discontinue use of the water heater if any of the vent . It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. Create a chart to regulate hot water usage. Similarly, if the return from the loops is mixing with the boiler loop system and cooling off the water before it gets sent to the recirculation pump, you will face this problem. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 Can this be moved to another sink in the house that is not used as often ? Crazy coincidence that I ran into your post because I've been researching the same issue. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. Turn off your main water valve if you are going on vacation. Is there a way to tell if the cold pipe is circulatory/return line or cold water from the mains? Check the thermistors condition along with pump wiring connectors. It sounds awful and not like any other recirculating pump I've ever heard. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after youve turned it off for your safety. sounds like you need a different plumber to assess your situation. Check if there is any gas leakage before turning it on after a couple of days. We want to reduce waste in using water given our well situation. Then, you can change the tank thermistor if needed. It shows that the water adjustment valve is not operating properly. Open the hot and cold service ports and turn the pump on. Another sign is the error code display. To remedy this issue, turn off the heater for some time and restart it. It is brand new in the original Navien factory packaging and is guaranteed to fit and function properly. You can adjust the temperature while the display is flashing. Can I swap out the mainboard in the NR240A to an NPE240A board to get all that features? Purchase and install a rocker switch or "doorbell" style buttons to activate the NRCR "on-demand" mode to prime the pump for use only when you want it. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. If a hot water faucet is open, you can adjust the temperature only from 98-110 F (37-43 C). Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump - YouTube 0:00 / 4:21 Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump RCGooner2002 240 subscribers Subscribe. You can change the cold water inlet thermistor if necessary. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. If we take that the average price of water is $0.18/gallon (according to Statistas 2019 study), heres how much you can save on water with a recirculation pump: Water Savings = 2,920 gallons/year * $0.18/gallon = $525.60/year. Way too many variables to even begin to diagnose online IMO. We recommend to use caution and seek the advice of qualified professionals. When I hooked hoses to the service pipes, the system still produced a strong, steady flow of water, seeming to not drain. (Per Hour, Month, Year), How Much Does A Tankless Water Heater Cost? Here we will cover all the important parts of hot water recirculations pumps, including: You will get an overall look at how you can use increased water pressure by a circulation pump for almost instantaneous hot water access. Make sure to follow our instructions properly for the right application. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valves direction. He says both the master bath and the kitchen. Take care! But, yes, I understand why it seems feasible for the sediment to eventually enter the water flow and cause the change in taste of water. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. This may require chasing the supply lines. At the same time, someone is in the kitchen doing the dishes. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Hello Sam, you can shut off the recirculating pump to the kitchen faucet. The operations manuals above cover all Navien NPE-A and NPE-S series condensing tankless water heaters. I have a new Noritz tankless water heater that includes an AquaMotion recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. You May Forget to Purge The Recirculation Pump, 03. Low gas supply which prevents proper heating of water, Damaged flow sensor preventing proper supply of gas to the heater. It is located on the lowest corner opposite the on and off button. Unfortunately, the heat exchanger cannot be fixed and has to be replaced. Thats 2,920 gallons of water per year wasted. Unplug the power to your Navien water heater. 08. How To Fix Navien Tankless Water Heater Code E003? After draining a few hot water tanks over the years, removing sediment, will the cold water now possibly have some sediment and/or taste issues. If you have come back from a vacation, first turn on the main water valve. How Does A Hot Water Recirculation Pump Work? Separate Recirculation Pumps. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Press the Power button on the front panel to turn on the water heater. If that fails, then the pump impeller might have disintegrated or the system water pressure may be below 0 at the pump suction causing the pump to cavitate. Both of those spots are problematic though. However, the plumber branched this off into the circulation water inlet. $257.16. House was built in late 1990s and is 2 story, built on a slab foundation. To remedy the issue, consider increasing the gas supply to the heater. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. We have 6 Navien NR-210A manuals available for free PDF download: Service Manual, Operation & Installation Manual, Installation Manual, Owner's Operation Manual, Quick Installation Manual Navien NR-210A Service Manual (179 pages) NR/NP Series Tankless Gas Water Heater Brand: Navien | Category: Water Heater | Size: 21.79 MB Table of Contents Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. It would be nice to get the hot water to the faucet especially the shower in the morning as quickly as possible. I have a tankless water heater with an external recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. Do you want to know the details? where does the recirc line tie come off the hot lines? Another suggestion I can give you is to maintain and service your Navien water heater according to the manual. The recirculation timer is set to operate ever 15 minutes, even though we are often not at the property. Depending on the size of the pump and installation difficulty, the average cost of a hot water recirculation pump costs anywhere from $200 to $800 (installed). Do we keep the flames on after cooking? Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get. Just one Navien water heater manual for all NPE-A and NPE-S units. The upfront cost is a major deterrent when deciding if it makes sense to install a circulation pump or not. Place a bucket underneath it to catch any water that drains when you remove the filter. Here are some of the leading causes of cold water production; Which means there isnt enough time for the water to heat up. Privacy Policy. To reduce that time significantly (and stop needlessly wasting water), we can install hot water recirculating pump. Grundfos small circulators are perfect as hot water recirculation pumps for commercial and domestic hot water applications. So you'll find the same info whether you're looking for the Navien 240A manual, the Navien NPE-240S manual, Navien NPE-180A manual or similar. It is an indication that your warm water outlet thermistor has some problems. First, place a thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. Eventually, they pay for themselves by reducing the water bills. There is a circulator pump, but it still takes a long time for hot water to reach the upstairs bathrooms. First, open and close the pressure relief valve, which is located near the units outlet. = heat loss from the circulation system [kW] Hello David, well, the additional costs are a con here. Fits These Models Thats all for today. The heater turns off automatically when the flue pipe surpasses 149 degrees Fahrenheit. You can also identify and fix them yourself. However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink for a few seconds the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. It worked perfectly. I recommend you disassemble the recirculation pump from the unit and inspect it carefully for foreign materials. That means that all the costs of the hot water circulation pump are covered by the water savings. It means there is some issue with the flow sensor or switch. We have to keep the valve on and slowly hot water comes out. Water recirculating pumps just circulate the water; the water pressure should stay the same. If you are looking for a tankless water heater that can provide you with hot water 24/7, Navien water heater is the way to go. There are two options when it comes to tankless heaters and recirculation pumps: If you have difficulty finding out which brand is the best for a tankless water heater with a recirculation pump, you should check the newest Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units. Are these pumps just a luxury that enables you to get hot water lightning fast, or do they actually save you money? Thats why most homeowners prefer installing the recirculation pump without the extra pipe. First, place a " thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. Its not exactly normal. A place for plumbing advice and help. If necessary, replace them all. Otherwise, turn it off. The pump saves this cold water and recirculates it in the hot water. Check to see if the water valves are open. (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. In his spare time, Oscar loves tinkering with electronics. Fortunately, Navien water heaters recycle hot water and always provide hot water. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Turn the unit off. It is caused by an open or shorted air pressure sensor. If water comes out from the pressure relief pipe, this indicates that the issue is not with the unit but with the house's plumbing. 5.0 out of 5 stars 3 ratings. Water heaters think about water in temperature: If the inlet water temperature is 40F and the guy at the kitchen sink doesnt want his hands to freeze, I need to warm that water up to 55F. Your article ended saying All in all, its important to understand that recirculation pumps are worth the money. It means there is some issue with the OT-remote controllers operation. Worst case is your plumber might have to call since they require them to maintain it. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. This is done every time you close the faucet. A loose part causing unnecessary vibrations, Vacuum in the water lines causing vibrations, A dirty flow sensor leading to gas flow interference and producing weird noises. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? Calculator + Chart (Natural Gas), Average Gas Bill For 1-Bedroom Apartment: State-By-State Cost Analysis, Average Electricity Bill For 4 Person Household (Survey Analysis), How Many kWh Per Day Is Normal? Also, turn off the water heater, and recirculate the pump. Cookie Notice (State-By-State Chart), How To Convert Therms To kWh? Make sure the exhaust pipe is not obstructed. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. It means that there is an issue with the air pressure sensor. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? Where does the circulation return line tie in, and where is this in relation to the Naviien unit, other fixtures, and appliances in the home? Is the plumbers reasoning valid here? A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 Follow Up: struct sockaddr storage initialization by network format-string, Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology, Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying. On the other hand, if you find no foreign stuff, ensure you purge the air out of the system. 30000466A Navien Circulation Pump NAPU9GLPCT33 . Check the wiring and cold water inlet two thermistors and make sure both are in good condition. ($0.05 $0.22/h), How Much Does 1000 Watts Cost Per Hour? You mentioned that in the summer months your can turn off the recirculation pump. Error Code E438 It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. I bought the. I guess the recirculation line will be the only one that is copper. There is some issue with the front panel key. The average electric tankless water heater needs at least 120 amps to work. 6\" Magnetic Nut setter Sethttps://amzn.to/2JdAckuMilwaukee 48-22-6330 Tongue and Groove Pliers Sethttps://amzn.to/3kfch0RGoPro Hero 8 Black Action Camera with Accessory Bundlehttps://amzn.to/34AGamfVeto Pro Pac Tech XL Tool Baghttps://amzn.to/2U1QqPFOLIGHT Bundle H2R LED Headlamp, 2300 Lumens Rechargeable Flashlighthttps://amzn.to/370rGiqAmprobe AMP-320 Clamp Meterhttps://amzn.to/2GNxUHeFluke 117 Electricians True RMS Multimeterhttps://amzn.to/3iFZP9tMilwaukee 2364-20 M12 Roverhttps://amzn.to/2HNvitKMilwaukee Rocket light 2132-20https://amzn.to/341OTPm #MIHeatingGuy #MichiganHeatingGuy It should come out of the hot water port. The water heater will retain your settings during a power outage. Start by turning off the service valves and removing the hoses. (With Water Savings Analysis), Note On Tankless Water Heater Hot Water Recirculation Pumps (Double Trouble), How Much Electricity Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? The user manual for these devices (of which I own two) provides a pretty good plumbing diagram for proper install. We might be able to do something about it. Its clearly not always running as I can see it says standby on the display most of the time. The recirculation pump saves on water bills by reducing the time to get hot water. When you are installing water system stuff, a lot of things can cause low pressure. The estimated annual operating cost of the Navien tankless water heater, based on the yearly estimated residential use per US Energy Department test criteria, is $191. I can figure out occupied or not from a home automation or alarm system. In large systems, however, it may be advantageous to use controlled pumps to enable adjustment of the flow when starting up the system and to be able to apply temperature control. Can a Hot Water Recirculating Pump cause low water pressure? 2. qc = the circulating water flow [m3/s] Heres the thing: Both cold and hot water need to be supplied using the same pipe. Hi Howy, well, the circulating pumps are usually powered by electricity, so they dont use gas. It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. Legal Disclosure:Lildutchuncle.com provides and shares information on plumbing, heating & air quality, home improvement, and other DIY projects. Navien tankless whole house HWH. I just hooked up the NR-20DU wired remote control ($80 from Fergusons) and programmed 3 on/off recirculating cycles based on family needs. My pipes arent big enough 2. Therefore, I can't drain the system. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. Increase water pressure at the water heater. If you look at the instructions, which tech support emailed to me, there is a Signal 1 input for 12 or 5V devices including remote controls or motion sensors BTW the other remote was sold out. He has a good standing reputation for superior skills in heating, air conditioning, hot water tanks, and indoor air quality systems. Examine and confirm the pressure sensor and wiring are in good condition. To remedy this, you can take the two clamps off the sensor, pull it out and clean it. Or invest in a larger water heater. You can contact a plumber if necessary. The error code E736 informs about the issue in cascade communication, and error code E740 indicates that the outdoor temperature sensor is not working correctly. and our Then replace the heater cover and turn the gas or power back on. Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. There are no error codes showing. Quite surprisingly for most homeowners, the biggest problem with this type of recirculation pump is getting cold water. Remove the front cover of the water heater. Apart from that, you can easily turn it on/off on your mobile whenever you wish. Any tips on where to verify if I have a dedicated return line? Remove and clean the cold air intake filter. This number indicates that the water pressure is high. As well as any future additions, Usage of household gadgets that require hot water, Automatic dishwasher 14 gallons or 1.5 GPM, Washing machine 32 gallons to wash the clothes or 2 GPM. Also, did you wire the PB from the Hot Button kit or only use the remote? Also, make sure you get the 1- pipe for the horizontal manifold, which will help even out the flow of the recirculators. The air will need to be bled out of the system. Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. 2. Recirculate temp in is 67, temp out when just recirculating is 67. Average 1-6 Person Home kWh Usage, Gas Vs Electric Water Heater Monthly Cost Comparison (State-By-State), Water Heating Costs For 1,2,3,4,5,6 Family Homes (State-By-State Analysis), Electric Water Heating Cost, kWh Usage Per Month (State-By-State RECS Analysis), What Is W2 Wire On Thermostat?